tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6748102197325960995.post3662506972957217874..comments2016-12-28T12:17:00.432-08:00Comments on The Dean's Blog: Extending Communion to All PresentDean Kevinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10900463973040820047noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6748102197325960995.post-83675820961109906722011-10-18T19:59:06.184-07:002011-10-18T19:59:06.184-07:00Kevin: You surprised me with your stance on this i...Kevin: You surprised me with your stance on this issue. And it is a good surprise. For me it boils down to the issue of who Jesus himself had table fellowship with. And, since I believe that Jesus was at least as present in his own body as he is in the sacrament of the altar, I think his own bodily "real presence" in earthly table fellowship 2000 years ago is indicative of who he welcomes to receive his sacramental "real presence" at the altar today. And the truth is that our Lord did not make baptism a prerequisite for sharing a meal with people. His main prerequisite seems to be receptivity and hospitality, which both are outward manifestations of the Inner "heart issues" you point out. In Jesus' ministry it seems that the shared meal led to baptism as much as, if not more than, baptism led to the shared meal. And today in our parishes, it is not just the font that leads to the altar, but the altar often leads to the font as well (as I have heard many laypeople and a few clergy attest to!). As for Paul's instruction regarding the discernment of the body, I would argue for a wholistic interpretation that not only considers Christ's presence in the elements, but his presence in the gathered body of believers as well. If a person, baptized or not, fails to perceive the sacredness of the meal (in the sin of sacrilege), or fails to perceive the sacredness of the people gathered (in the sins of apathy, hatred, or abuse) then I would advise them not to partake. I would advise them, in the words of Jesus, "to first be reconciled and then offer their gifts at the altar" (cf. Mat 5). But again, this is based on heart issues, and not on an external criterion. Thanks for the post!Nate Bostianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00056724261586741267noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6748102197325960995.post-87914495923115619242011-10-13T13:33:36.919-07:002011-10-13T13:33:36.919-07:00Allow me to clarify my friends, we do not practice...Allow me to clarify my friends, we do not practice "open communion" at the Cathedral. Here is our invite, "We invite all Baptized persons who desire a greater knowledge of God and a deeper relationship with Jesus Christ to share in this Holy Eucharist." My article is about "the heart" which I think is Cranmerian.Dean Kevinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10900463973040820047noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6748102197325960995.post-43047435892359780002011-10-13T13:30:46.553-07:002011-10-13T13:30:46.553-07:00To RRChapman. First let me say, there is no Calvi...To RRChapman. First let me say, there is no Calvinism in my position. :-) But to unpack. If the Lord's intention is to draw all men (sic) to himself and they are drawn to know him in communion, it is for me "his best interest" to allow them. The emphasis here is on "his" best interest not mine. I don't think this excludes his grace or work of the Spirit in doing so.Dean Kevinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10900463973040820047noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6748102197325960995.post-89963456967483087922011-10-13T13:18:04.886-07:002011-10-13T13:18:04.886-07:00Ben, of course you have made several good points. ...Ben, of course you have made several good points. As I said, my article is "an aside" and not meant to be comprehensive. I just think that inadvertently we have made it about membership and not Christ.Dean Kevinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10900463973040820047noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6748102197325960995.post-39423560889591770392011-10-13T13:14:51.621-07:002011-10-13T13:14:51.621-07:00So true, but I actually think it is an issue of ec...So true, but I actually think it is an issue of ecclesiology. What does it mean to be "church" or more closely connected with communion, what does it mean to be the Body of Christ?Marthahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00666574916649693289noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6748102197325960995.post-69071288366029549842011-10-13T13:12:16.636-07:002011-10-13T13:12:16.636-07:00Martha, re: the inconsistency between open communi...Martha, re: the inconsistency between open communion and emphasis on mutual ministry: I've never found consistency to be a major flaw of us Episcopal Clergy. :-) we tend to pick and choose the positions on issues we likeDean Kevinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10900463973040820047noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6748102197325960995.post-6221730704544518782011-10-13T13:06:02.360-07:002011-10-13T13:06:02.360-07:00Kevin,
You make an interesting point and one that ...Kevin,<br />You make an interesting point and one that has never occurred to me. Still, there are several things that need to be said about "membership." First, the notion of membership and belonging is not a foreign concept in our culture. People are "members" of a health club, or children are "members" of a sports team, or a school club. So, I wonder if even the unbaptized who want to know Christ more deeply would fail to grasp the concept, indeed the significance, of membership. Second, the membership in question is in the Body of Christ. No doubt you include this under the umbrella of “Church”. But since we are talking about those without a working Christian vocabulary, the word “church” means no more than “this bunch of folk who worship under this roof.” And, of course, that notion of church is woefully inadequate. Fellowship in the Body is akin, I think, to the Gospel from last Sunday about the wedding banquet (Mt 22:1-14). All are welcome, but you need to put on the garment befitting the occasion. The notion of wearing the right clothing abounds in the New Testament. The language of taking off the old and putting on the new is closely linked in Paul’s thinking, I believe, with baptism. Finally, it has been observed, including by you if I am not mistaken, that the success of the so-called “mega churches” could be attributed at least in part by their instance on setting standards. They require more, not less, of people. Maybe I am mistaken. For instance, I don’t know what Saddleback’s requirements are for communion. Then again, they have open baptism (I’ve seen it myself).<br />I also wonder why the debate is narrowed to fit into a Cranmer-like framework and not, say, a Catechetical one?Benhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07083132658791074507noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6748102197325960995.post-53542362175973874532011-10-13T13:01:35.947-07:002011-10-13T13:01:35.947-07:00In my neck of the woods, the bulletins generally s...In my neck of the woods, the bulletins generally say "This is God's Table and all are welcome." And the intent is open communion - to demonstrate God's hospitality. Somewhat ironically this is frequently promoted by those who are deeply committed to "mutual ministry" models which seek to recognize and nurture the spiritual gifts of lay persons to lead and support small congregations, based on the "baptismal theology" of the 1979 BCP. One of the issues we challenge students to think about is how does open communion impact a baptismal ecclesiology, which will actually be part of next week's discussion.Marthahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00666574916649693289noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6748102197325960995.post-81623804935913480962011-10-13T12:50:34.416-07:002011-10-13T12:50:34.416-07:00"Excluding those seekers from receiving commu..."Excluding those seekers from receiving communion may not be in our Lord’s best interest."<br /><br />Could you please unpack this sentence for me. I don't want to misunderstand what you meant. <br /><br />Maybe, as much as I try to expunge it, there is enough Calvinistic influence on me that keeps me from from thinking we can do <em>anything</em> in our Lord's best interest. We can do things in the best interest of other seekers along the way, however.rrchapmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15832559778340592981noreply@blogger.com